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   some meesages from Aikido Journal BB

non-korean martial artists visited Young Sul Kwan, sometime.
some messages of visitors at Aikido Journal Bulletin Board.

(1) Fukuoka Masami ----------------------
* he who was sub-master of Daitoryu Shesinkai visited at 2000 from japan to korea.

So nothing but go to Kumsan it remained.
GM Kim Yun-sang showed me his techniques.
1)It was special style I never seen.
2)Exactly it had DR characteristic in the stem.
3)He had high skill. It cann't be denial.
4)That includes some other techniques of DR.(still unideinfied,probably Youshin-ryu stream)

It made me confused.
After that I talked with GM Kim Youn-Sang. He asked me what's the meaning of some sentence he had memorised.
He said GM Choi Young-Sul tought as that, but he couldn't understand EVEN very easy Japanese.
GM Choi Young Sul was not good at speaking Korean.
GM Choi Young Sul had big trouble in the communication with his students. So many couldn't understand Japanese.
And that was just secret know-how of DR. It was same as what Takeda Tokimuse Souke said.

(2) Rupert Atkinson-------------------------(http://www.angelfire.com/mac/aikido/index.html )
* he visited 2003. he is a expert of aikido & japan martial artist.

Being in Korea I find the Yongsul-gwan and GM Kim Yun-sang quite interesting.
Recently, in the Korean media people are discovering that the Hapkido or Kooksul that they have been doing all these years is not really Korean historically.
The Yongsul-gwan is ineresting as what they do is probably the source of most modern Korean Hapki style martial arts.
They teach exactly as taught by Choi Yong-sul. That's it. And it is a solid, complete system.
All other modern Korean Hapki arts, although they claim to be 2000 years old etc., stem from Choi Yong-sul.
I am not saying they are no good: Koreans are adept at modifying to suit - the only mistake they make is the 2000 years history saga.
And even that is quite understandable - it is only recently, since a couple of years ago, that Japanese culture has been legally allowed to penetrate South Korea.
In that light, Yongsul-gwan's continuous 50 year claim to Japanese heritage is all the more convincing.
Yongsul-gwan is tiny in comparison to other Korean groups but they have stuck to their guns and kept training - sticking to their source.

(3) Frans Drenth------------------------------
* he is a trained hapkido & aikido for 15 years.
at 2003, he visited from holland to korea and trained with us for one week.

Hello you all,
I've followed the discussions about dojunim Choi and Kim Yung Sang for a while.
The way Shin Hoon prresents hapkiyusul made me decide to visit dojunim Kim Yung Sang.
I went to Korea for a week and i had the privilidge to train three times a day with him and his students.
I've trained for over ten years hapkido and after that five years aikido. Dojunim Kim Yung Sang is incredable he showed me use of aiki that is magnificent. The way they recieved me and treated me were fantastic.
Everybody that have interest in aikijujutsu, hapkiyusul or hapkido should go to dojunim Kim Yung Sang. It will be an experience you never forget.

Regards Frans.

Posts: 2 | From: Netherlands

Sure i like to tell.
Dojunim Kim Yung Sang is one of the most kindest man i've met. His skills are great.
When i got there he asked what i wanted to learn so i told him i wanted to learn to execute technique the way he does. It was amazing. Sometimes his cirkels are so small that it seems that he don't move at all.
When i grabbed him he took my balance and there was no escape. I saw his students grab him and he moved in a way so they couldn't let go.
Once one of his students put a bo ken on his hand, he used his ki and the student flew backward. He tought me not to use armpower but to use bodypower. Realy it was amazing.
I saw the scroll from the Choi family wich said that he was dojunim of the Choi legacy.
Once a japanese visit dojunim Kim Yung Sang, he was a daito ryu expert, his name was Foekoka. He recognized pure Daito ryu techniques and wrote an article in a japanese magazine called Vision.
You see i got a little bit carried away but the expeirience was so immens that my hart is full of it. Anyway, everything i wrote down today is my expeirience. Iff you are in the possition to go to him please do, it will be a visit you never forget.
I travelled for 9000 km to train with him, it was worthwhile every minut.

Regards Frans.

(4) Goatman(Nick Name)---------------------------
* he is a master of hapkido of AU.

Hi Gang,
Just browsed your discussion. I have met and trained with one of the black belts from his school and have seen a tape of Dojunim Kim Yung Sung in action. A lot of his stuff is not unlike Soshi Seigo Okamoto, has aiki stuff similar to Ueshiba, and a lot more. I have not seen this stuff in any tapes of the Daito Ryu demonstrations.
So the question for all you pedants is, Where did Dojunim Kim learn his techniques? He seems to be an honest man and says that Choi taught him, over a 12 year period toward the end of Choi's life. So where did Choi learn it? Why is it similar to Okamoto?
This web site tells us that Takeda did not teach everyone the same stuff, but was selective according to how he judged the student. The demonstrations from different Daitoryu schools seem to support the idea that their founders (masters) received different chunks of Takeda's knowledge. In this respect why is Okamoto so dissimilar to others (eg Kondo)?
I dont think the answers will be found in documents, Bruce. Maybe studying the techniques will give a clue to origins.
I suggest you all take Mr Shin more seriously and go and visit Hap Ki Yu Sul and see it. Better still invite Dojunim Kim to one of the Daito ryu demos so you can compare the techniques.
The HapKi Yu SUl tape I viewed showed various high ranking visitors attempting joint locks etc on the senior students and most were unable to move them let alone apply the locks. The black belt I trained with (briefly) said he was unable to move students of a higher rank.
Incidently I met Chang Il Mok in 1995, when he was 85, a nice old gentleman and still able to show a thing or two.

Kind regards

#post 2#
G'day Possums,
Intriguing it is Cady. In my experience documents can be produced, altered, fudged etc and may be as reliable/unreliable as anecdotes.
However Dojunim Kim (Hap Ki Yu Sul) demonstrates very high level aiki techniques on the tape I viewed, the "no touch" and "cannot let go" type stuff. There are not many masters who can demonstrate such stuff in the world.
Soemon Takeda is considered to be the one who introduced the term aiki and Sokaku Takeda exercised it if all the anecdotes have some substance. Kodo Horikawa is said to have received certificates of "The Secret essence" and"The Secret Essence of Mysteries" around 1931. I suspect Takeda taught him the higher level aiki stuff as Horikawa was Okomato's master and he demonstrates such stuff today.
Choi taught Dojunim Kim so Choi must have learnt these higher level aiki techniques during the many years he spent in Japan. That he was associated with Takeda in some way is generally accepted; I dont think it matters whether or not he was house boy, adopted son, student or dogsbody. Whatever he was he acquired Takeda's aiki stuff and passed it on to Dojunim Kim, Mr Shin Hoon's teacher. He continues to demonstrate and teach this stuff.
The techniques tell the story and they are very rare.
My opinion is that, like Takeda, Choi did not teach every student the higher level aiki techniques. Most got the yarawa or ju jitsu that characterise a lot of Hapkido schools.
Incidently the strikes taught by Dojunim Kim are unlike any taught in Hapkido schools, and again he says Choi taught him.

Ruminate some more, folks.

Kind regards,


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Rupert Atkinson's Hapkido Introduction

[VIDEO] 2003.5 Seminar part(2)

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